TiVo Unveils Plans for Digital Transition, 2009

“Not a bad deal at all”? The heck you say. TIVO took my money and in return promised to supply software updates and listings for the life of the hardware. The hardware is very much alive. The DVT transition plan provides for converter boxes to minimize hardware obsolescence. A software update is all that is required for the Series 1 to control the converter; all the hardware is there. But, in violation of the agreement, TIVO is refusing to provide the necessary software update. And you think it is a good deal for me to reward that by giving them $300 to transfer the agreement to another machine, a machine that doesn’t even support satellite, an option I had assumed I might use in the future? I am not even working right now and spending $400 is out of the question. So when the transition occurs, I will loose my TIVO. Someday when I am working again I’ll get a PC with an HD tuner which gets its software updates and listings for free over the Internet. Given how cheap PC’s are these days and how well the PC DVR function works, I can’t understand why anyone would pay TIVO $12/month for something that is free over the Internet. And before anyone suggests I got enough for my money, that I got a very good deal, I would counter that TIVO didn’t contract to provide a good deal. It contracted to provide lifetime software and listing updates. And when I paid up front way back when TIVO was pretty new, I took a very real risk that TIVO might fail and I would loose my money. So, no one has the right to say to me that I’ve already gotten my money’s worth. Actually, I think there is a class action lawsuit in this, but not by me. I wouldn’t waste my time. TIVO is just acting like every other big company these days.

I have two Series 1 TiVo’s with Lifetime.

So, if I read this right, option #1 says that the IR blaster will control the converter box, but then you say that I need to wait for a software update.

Which is right?

It may be possible for you to obtain normal TiVo operation on all major (2.1, 4.1 etc) DTV channels on your TiVo Series 1. My local Comcast cable lineup options include a lineup of over the air channels only. The line up includes all the major channels in the two local markets (Miami/Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach) and nothing else. If you have a line up like that, then you can select, Cable with box, the over the air only lineup, and then use a DTV converter that responds to one of the cable box codes. The Channel Master CM-7000 responds to the second set of Pioneer cable box codes and I picked the fast option. Also selected the code as two digit, no enter key. Although I get no minor channels (2.2, 2.3, etc) in the line up, I do have a lot of channels working perfectly.

It turns out that you don’t even need an IR blaster. Though I have one, I found out (maybe everyone knows this) that TiVo transmits the IR out the front. Just set the boxes facing each other. A warning about using an IR extender to control TiVo with any IR converter box. Mine blips the IR a lot, which can delay or stop TiVo from changing channels on the converter box because TiVo will not transmit IR for a period of time after seeing any incoming IR.

You may also be able to get better than nothing service using a Zenith DTT901. I didn’t see any cable boxes that correspond to it so I set it up as an LG satellite receiver, first code, fast. Using the Direct TV with local channels, I can select a lineup from one of the two local markets. However, TiVo only works with single digit channels on the DTT901 because you can not tell it to use 2 digit numbers. It enters a leading 0 on channels like 23 which causes 2.3 to be selected. Also, the Zenith pops up a list of channels when you start keying and will default to the first one after a moment. Unfortunately, it does not include the current channel in the list. So, if you record two back to back programs on the same channel, the second program fails because the current channel is not in the list. If there is a time gap, it works OK because TiVo resends the channel when the recording is done. This takes it off the desired channel but ensures that the current channel will be in the list the next recording. There is no problem in recording back to back on different channels. Bottom line, this setup moderately sucks, but you can probably get several major channels working most of the time.

I am thinking that other converter boxes may work as a satellite receiver and not have the problems of the Zenith. And some which work with cable, may have problems like the Zenith.

It appears that the CM-7000 does not correspond to any satellite receivers.

Comment on CM-7000 (S-video output) verses DTT901 (composite out). TiVo does a great job of separating out the composite signal and if there is a big difference in picture quality between these two it has not been obvious to me. I am watching a 9’ wide projection via a Mitsubishi HD1000U. Actually, I have a suspicion that the DTT901 is a bit better despite the lack of S-video output but I have done no real side by side tests. The broadcast source material varies fairly dramatically so it is hard to know without that.

Darn, another correction. The 3 digit method works on the DTT901 as indicated but since the CM-7000 setup only works if you select two digits, you can not manually time record minor channels. OK, so that sucks. TiVo still needs to update the Series 1 or make other acceptable arrangements. Because what does lifetime service mean? OK, it isn’t my lifetime. They had said it was for the life of the machine. But my machine is very much alive and still, I am not going to receive support. I guess it is for the lifetime of TiVo’s willingness to honor their commitment. In my case, that was about 8 years. Life is short.

I’m a Series 1 lifetime sub buyer from 2000, I talked up Tivo to everyone who would listen and several friends bought Tivos on my referrals. The fact that my Tivo Series 1 is now officially de-supported notwithstanding the so-called “lifetime” support means I will not only never buy another product from them, but will badmouth them every chance I get. The least they could do is let us transfer our subscriptions to new hardware that actually works with modern TV, collecting the money from the hardware sale, but they won’t even do that! I’d pay $600 for an XL but I won’t pay $900 or more including a new subscription. It’s outrageous and scuzzy and now, when they go out of business, I’ll feel like they deserved it instead of feeling like the underdog got unfairly shut out.

Well, ok. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Mine is different. Series 1 and Series 2 single tuner owner myself. I feel that Tivo has done nothing wrong. The “agreement”was to service the lifetime of the tivo (series 1 for me) as long as the box lasts. You are not losing any functions that were originially on the Tivo series 1. What you are losing is anything coming in over the air analog programming, which Tivo does not provide nor guarantee to receive.

Instead, though not “officially” supported, you can use a converter box just like everyone else out there that has an analog only tuner be it a TV, or TiVo in this case. So for $20 after coupon(or there abouts), your tivo can do what it was built to do, does do, and will continue to do as long as the box works. You are not entitled to have tivo upgrade you for free or at any price break for that matter, there is nothing in the agreement or contract stating they will upgrade you to the latest technology in any way; though they have offered some incentives in the past, evne though they don’t have to. You are not entitled to suddenly receive and record the new sub-channels that only exist due to digital broadcasting, which is obviously not part of what the original TiVo series 1 could do. All they agreed to do was to continue providing usable guide data for the TiVo as long as it lasts. When it comes to not being able to get guide data for the S1, then we will have something on them, but not before.

There are many solutions out there, some require hacking your TiVo, then you can record any channel you want, including sub-channels. Or if you prefer like me; just a few tweaks to the settings of the TIVO with the CORRECT converter boxes, and you can still record the original stations that you got via analog, only now it’s almost digital quality, very crisp and clear pictures. You still can get guide data for the programming as well (at least currently as of my post). Simply redo guided setup on the tivo, select ‘cable’, then select ‘w/ box’ and then select ‘OTA-Antenna only’. Don’t quote me on the order or exact wording, but the basic idea is there. That will give you the guide data the TiVo needs to record your shows.

For what it’s worth, I’m using an APEX DT250 (though a newer better model is out I understand) on my Phillips S1 with the above setup. Been running fine for several months now, and before that I had just found a local provider with a similar line up as regular broadcast, then deleted all channels I didn’t receive. But that was the hard way, the new way with selecting cable->cable box->OTA-Antenna Only, is much easier with no hassle.

Also recommended if you are not already, put the TiVo’s and converter boxes on a UPS, so that small power blinks, etc will not affect the equipment as well as make them last even longer. And you need this for the converter boxes because all of them that I know off default to OFF after loss of power, which obviously is not good if you’re trying to record something.

Ok I’m done know, had to add my two cents, and yes it would be awesome if TiVo gave us a very good deal as they did the very early TiVo S1 lifetime subs (prior to Jan 2000 I believe). or some other sweet deal. But, TiVo is like a personal computer, at some point it will be too old, and cannot do whatever the latest technology is unless you upgrade. 🙂

I’m a little confused. The earlier post referenced seems to indicate that if you have cable TV, you aren’t affected. I have basic cable (about 70 channels) that doesn’t require a cable box right now. I have the TCD649080 dual tuner Tivo. Is there any reason that I’d have any problems if the cable company isn’t saying that we have to get a converter box to view certain channels going forward?

Good. Just to be clear…no problems with dual tuner functionality, right?

Hi Bob. You are off topic, this is about how TiVo is handling the digital transition. However, I believe TiVo changed the language before the Series 2 was introduced. Folks with a unit before, I think Jan 2000, were given one free transfer for life to make up for the confusion. I see that right now they are offering existing lifetime owners a discount on a new lifetime subscription and you get to keep your old subscription too. I would think that you could sell your Series2 with lifetime and make up quite a bit of the cost of the discounted service. I hope this helps. But let’s not derail this topic. It is about TiVo’s handling of the DTV transition. The Series 2 is fully supported by TiVo. The Series 1 is where problems occur. I have been polite and persistent and TiVo has rewarded that approach in my case. However, I have not completed the interaction and won’t comment further at this time. Good luck to all, polite and persistence may work for you too.